Deathclaws go home.

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Deathclaws go home.

Post by TheRealDeejay on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:46 am

Why do we have a talking deathclaw?

Where's the application for the talking deathclaw?

If we need a talking deathclaw, why isn't the talking deathclaw an event character?


I cannot be the only one who has a problem with this bullshit.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by virtualFear on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:49 am

Why is a talking deathclaw even an event character lmao?
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Ferris~ on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:53 am

I'm fine with a talking deathclaw. If it's an event character. And used like, once. For a very, very, very good reason.
Talking deathclaw are incredibly rare, and the idea of one just popping into town and living there now seems incredibly jarring.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Pinkie on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:57 am

Yeah, this is being an issue at least for me personally. Server is still in the first week and we already have a talking deathclaw? This is like, end of the server time stuff, not the first few days.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Nazz on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:57 am

I'm in full agreement with this thread and the aforementioned statements. Just because something can be justified with lore and canon doesn't make it a viable thing that should be included on a roleplay server, especially something so much more powerful AND intelligent than every other character.

It can do what it wants when it wants and there's not a single nary goddamn thing any character can do about it!


That's not ok.

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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Ferris~ on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:02 am

Also I personally don't feel comfortable with a deathclaw in town. There's no way it can really be accused of powergame because it's literally an overpowered lizard who can rationally think and speak.

If an antagonist wants to attack someone and pose any kind of challenge to the protagonists, all it takes it someone to sic the deathclaw on it and it's game over. There's little to no threat anymore as long as it's around.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by avain on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:05 am

I'm pretty sure deathclaws cannot hold conversation, they can only mimic sounds that include human vocals. It's like a parrot. It's still an animal incapable of conversational communication, sure it can relate specific words to specific meanings, but that is in the same way you train your dog to sit when you say 'sit'. It will never amount to a conversation.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by yayo on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:14 am

Talking deathclaws were created by the Enclave.

They were then slaughtered by the Enclave.

This happened on the West Coast.

This character's absurdity means that it went all the way from the West Coast to the East Coast - for no good reason.

Not only that, but look at the model. It isn't a normal deathclaw from what I can see. It looks all special snowflake / unique. Kind of like a dragon. HM. I wonder why.

The character poses a lot of issues, really.


  • OP. As stated by Ferris, the deathclaw can basically survive anything we're facing right now. If it "helps" us, no threat. Tension - gone.
  • Immersion breaking. I don't care if they were in the game. They were literally mass-genocided after their creation. There's very few left. Not only that, but it's not even a creation from this region of the US.
  • Destroys the tone. There is nothing more unserious then a talking deathclaw. When I first heard that Lilith was talking with the deathclaw I wanted to slap myself in the face. It was probably the stupidest thing that's ever happened on the server. I was at first only mildly annoyed and expected an event. It turned out to be an event that never ended.


Generally speaking, it just rubs me off the wrong way.

However, I am the type of guy who is disappointed in how easy the group of characters has had it so far, so the fact we get to talk to a deathclaw instead of fight it is just as disappointing to me.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by yayo on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:17 am

avain wrote:I'm pretty sure deathclaws cannot hold conversation, they can only mimic sounds that include human vocals. It's like a parrot. It's still an animal incapable of conversational communication, sure it can relate specific words to specific meanings, but that is in the same way you train your dog to sit when you say 'sit'. It will never amount to a conversation.

Unfortunately, this is not the situation.

The character is explained through the intelligent deathclaws designed by the Enclave, which were killed off in mass, with only a few survivors. His character isn't impossible and is """LORE FRIENDLY""" if you want to believe a West Coast survivor of a literal Enclave-fueled holocaust of the poor chosen, intelligent deathclaws made their way all the way to Maryland to sit around in some swamp.

Not only that, but all these vault dwellers now have their first memory of a deathclaw being "some of them can talk!"
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by rikk on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:19 am

i fucking agree, dude. like, alright, intelligent deathclaws happened in fallout 2, but that was like 7 or something in a vault all the way in new california. also, the deathclaws that were experimented by the enclave didnt even desert until 2242 when they took over vault 13. the deathclaw has no reason to be a character, it wouldnt even make sense for a event.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by yayo on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:22 am

rikk wrote:i fucking agree, dude. like, alright, intelligent deathclaws happened in fallout 2, but that was like 7 or something in a vault all the way in new california. also, the deathclaws that were experimented by the enclave didnt even desert until 2242 when they took over vault 13. the deathclaw has no reason to be a character, it wouldnt even make sense for a event.

Yeah. Now the character is even more impossible.

It is 2240 in the server.

The smart deathclaws wouldn't be outside Enclave facilities until 2242.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by TheRealDeejay on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:24 am

It might make sense if there was an application or something with a backstory that we can read.

Idunnoman.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by electro swing on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:56 am

the whole pacing of this is retarded
the first interaction with a super mutant and a deathclaw, two of the most antagonistic creatures in the wasteland, just so happen to be intelligent and friendly
the deathclaw is played by a scaly with autism
the super mutant actually might've been alright but it was introduced at the wrong time
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by  on Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:17 am

-snip-


Last edited by TheMightyDRGN on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Pianotugboat on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:49 am

My opinion on the character is going to remain silent until the problem is resolved, just realize we hear what the community says and we will respond in accordance to it. Thank you for presenting your concerns in this organized fashion, and i'm not being sarcastic or snarky by saying this, it's an honest thank you. We'll handle this shortly
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by  on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:21 pm

-snip-


Last edited by TheMightyDRGN on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by electro swing on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:56 pm

alright i'm not gonna make a passive aggressive ten paragraph post here but here's the thing
you don't seem to understand that your character, intentionally or not, is helping the town out
you dragged a robot into town to give to us for no reason
you have WALKED INTO TOWN to talk to us for no reason
you decided you wanted to play an intelligent deathclaw for no reason and bring it in just as everyone left the vault
we didn't get a hostile super mutant OR a hostile deathclaw as our first encounter, only neutral of both. it's ridiculous because it feels like it's so "safe" for everyone and now the whole mystery of the wasteland has dropped away to reveal the painted walls
you were too busy realizing you could and never stopped to think if you should
your self-righteous smugness and false indignation only makes you look like an autist, too
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by  on Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:47 pm

electro swing wrote:alright i'm not gonna make a passive aggressive ten paragraph post here but here's the thing
you don't seem to understand that your character, intentionally or not, is helping the town out
you dragged a robot into town to give to us for no reason
you have WALKED INTO TOWN to talk to us for no reason
you decided you wanted to play an intelligent deathclaw for no reason and bring it in just as everyone left the vault
we didn't get a hostile super mutant OR a hostile deathclaw as our first encounter, only neutral of both. it's ridiculous because it feels like it's so "safe" for everyone and now the whole mystery of the wasteland has dropped away to reveal the painted walls
you were too busy realizing you could and never stopped to think if you should
your self-righteous smugness and false indignation only makes you look like an autist, too

I'm the Devil's advocate. I'm not going to leave a player's character stranded in an area which they should not be in, because nobody else was going to come out and make their day. Because compromises have to be made. I feel like I was pretty comprehensive in conveying my points, it's just up to people to take a couple of minutes to read 'em. They wanted a message-board orientated discussion instead of an active chat about the issues, so I'm simply obliging.

It also sounds like you've issues outside of this, which really aren't my concern as far as posting here goes since they don't pertain to this topic. By all means, you're welcome to make a separate thread to push your ideas if you feel like you've got an issue you'd like to talk about.


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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Satan on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:05 pm

While I like DRGN, I dislike the Talking Deathclaw. They were just invented about five years ago. I know several people dislike and I am one of them.

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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by rikk on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:27 pm

what i dont understand is how a character like this even is needed at all for the sake of roleplay. theres literally a million different things you can do within the fallout universe, that could actually make the roleplay more interesting, and you decided to do a sentient deathclaw because apparently its for roleplay? if it isnt for a event, whats its use then? talking to 9 year old girls in a swamp? no matter how you explain this character, itll always not make sense.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Ferris~ on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:32 pm

DRGN wrote:'Why do we have a Deathclaw like this?'
This first question isn't really a well thought out. But I'll humor it - it's for RP.

That is why most things are made, of course. But saying "it's for RP" is a blanket statement, and honestly not a very solid reason for something existing. I could easily say, for example, that I have a horse "for RP". But it doesn't explain why I have it, where I got it, and how I thought this would add to roleplay.

DRGN wrote:If you feel strongly about this, you could do with being informed that there are a number of additional cases of certain administrators self-approving their own characters, whilst other more-responsible administrators are still left to write applications for their more common-or-garden characters. Fortunately, in my case and the case of someone else. We only have at least one character with a backstory kept under wraps, to surely be found out at another time throughout the course of prolonged development.

But is this fair? Even on old singularity, admins weren't allowed to post half done applications and just self approve it, they had to make a thorough app and get it accepted by another admin. And I totally get that people don't want to spoil big parts of their backstory, but even then, you still make an app and ask the rest of the admins for approval for the spoilery bits. I'm completely sure this is how we used to do this back on MERP.

DRGN wrote:'But it's powerful!'
You're damn right it is. But there've already been cases of people taking measures against it which I would have deemed as being drastically effective. And it wasn't even through some sort of big gun, nor power armor. Nobody needs to make a Johnny 'Durasteel' with a Supersledge anticipating that they can go and fix this mess themselves like they're the hero everyone deserves. Nobody on the server is exactly disenfranchised, however. If you want it gone, use your head - this is an RP based around writing, and not an RPG derivative of levels detailing what you can and cannot encounter and kill. If you want to fight it, then do so. If you have an antagonistic character which provides some difficulty to the settlement, then you have much worse things to worry about than this character.

You remember the Deathclaw fight in Fallout 4, right? Do you remember how hard it was to fight with a minigun and power armor? Because I do. I remember it staggering me to the ground, picking me up and stabbing me in the gut repeatedly, swerving around minigun fire, and taking out 5-6 raiders who were also fighting it. And after that, the game never forces you to fight a deathclaw again. Because the game never gives you a fully loaded minigun and a full set of power armor right before you fight one again. In New Vegas, you never even have to fight one. Nowhere in the story does it force you to fight one, because it's practically impossible unless you have the right equipment.

This character may be incredibly powerful canonically, but that doesn't mean it's fair. Never once in a roleplay have I seen a non-event player be so powerful that it was nearly undefeatable, because that would be powergame. Whether you intended it or not, a deathclaw is going to be very powergame-y, which doesn't really work for where we are in the server.

DRGN wrote:'Why isn't it an event character?'
Because it wasn't designed to be one. For all of the documented events I have planned, the Deathclaw is not involved in any. Nor did I intend for it to be. It's not the purpose it was due to serve.

If this was never intended to be an event character, then this either should've been applied for, or thoroughly discussed with the admins. Which, judging by Nazz's reaction and the initial reaction I got from both Nazz and Piano, I feel it may not have been.

DRGN wrote:You don't like it? Fine, but nobody placed you as the ultimate authority or the commissioned officer of approval. It's clear that you dislike it, but there's no stated reasoning for as to why you oppose it. The reasons you gave me in the steam chat were all flawed, and you couldn't really come up with anything but a strawman argument to try and prove your own viewpoint in the end. Here, all you've done is piggyback onto the assumptions that others've made, before stating that 'It's not okay' based on those assumptions - without really knowing anything about it. Which I explicitly stated to you directly about not really finding it necessary to inform you since it has no bearing on whatever you decide to do as an administrator.

Stellar. I get the impression that it's either your way, or nothing at all.

I initially didn't want to involve myself in the whole passive aggressiveness thing but, honestly, this is something I couldn't ignore.

Not once has Nazz implied that it was "his way or nothing at all". Nazz came in with his own concerns, just like the rest of us did. If he wanted to get rid of your character right here and now in an undiplomatic fashion, I assume he would've. But he's not. He's adding his voice to this argument, which he has every right to do so.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by The Soviet Pikachu on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:38 pm

I honestly don't like the deathclaw for a lot of reasons. Many have already be said. I don't like it OOCLY for breaking the lore, I see no place for it in this server, and I don't like that an admin was able to get such a character but any other player would be denied.
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Re: Deathclaws go home.

Post by Nazz on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:13 pm

From here on out consider any and all interaction with the deathclaw to be null and void. It's gone.

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Re: Deathclaws go home.

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